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Prague Spring - Discussion Board

Author Thread: Recent email thread on Chavez
ag30476
Recent email thread on Chavez
Posted: Friday, January 19, 2007 2:24 PM (EST)

________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 11:16 AM
Subject: End of the beginning?

Venezuelan lawmakers give Chavez power to rule by decree

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070119/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/venezuela_chavez


________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:02 PM
Subject: Chavez money si, Yankee investor money no

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/17/AR2007011702063.html


________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:07 PM
Subject: Still there is no shortage of fools

'Viva Chavez: Venezuela is the hip new socialist utopia

Leftists are flocking to see a country being transformed,
writes Rory Carroll in Caracas'

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/viva-chavez-venezuela-is-the-hip-new-socialist-utopia/2007/01/19/1169095977635.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Until they get snake bit themselves.


________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:09 PM
Subject: Anyone here still holding out hope for Venezuela's future

Jerome?


________________________________________
From: Joseph
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Chavez money si, Yankee investor money no

you had to be a fool not to see that one coming...and invest 1.7 billiones


________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:17 PM
Subject: RE: Chavez money si, Yankee investor money no

The guy who made the mistake admits it:

‘Taking risks is what business is all about," Bakke said in an interview yesterday. "The question is how much risk you take." In this case, he said, "we took too much. Forbes magazine at the time said the AES move was "perplexing," noting that other investors were fleeing because they saw Chavez as an unpredictable, self-styled revolutionary autocrat. But Bakke, now retired from AES and running a chain of charter schools, said the opinion of AES executives and directors was unanimous back then.

Now I think it was a mistake," he said. "Not so much doing it; you're going to make mistakes. You'd like to be smarter about how big a mistake.’

The thing is I think we all could agree with his business model. In fact, I think many businessmen have a similar model: make profit but benefit the community at the same time:

‘And Chavez was impressed by Bakke, a devout Christian who still believes that "the purpose of business is not making money or making a stock price go up, but to do something wonderful for society . . . in an economically sustainable manner."

Asked about the AES investment by a Venezuelan newspaper in May 2000, Chavez said, "I do not have to meddle in that, because I consider it strictly private." He said the company's executives "displayed a quite progressive vision."

For AES at that time, there were reasons to take the risk. Because so many foreign investors were nervous about Venezuela, the price of EDC shares was attractive. EDC paid out $184 million in dividends to AES in 2004 and 2005, according to the AES Web site. EDC has generating plants, about 2,600 employees and more than 1 million customers.

Bakke said the EDC investment was one of a handful made during his tenure that violated his own guidelines limiting AES's exposure in any one place.’

The bad guy in the 3rd world is less likely to be big business and more likely to be the government itself. I think this is where the anti-globalists go wrong. Even here: If not for Disney, what would Times Square be like?


________________________________________
From: Joseph
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: Still there is no shortage of fools

I have seen these naive do gooder types all over the world
 
Usually they start off all misty eyed, loving their romantic third world brethern, and anxious to help and provide a cool hip counterweight presense to the grotesque, meat eating global warming capitalists of the west.
 
Several years later, after having been gang raped by the village youths, extorted by  local police, pickpocketed and insulted while shopping in the marketplace, and seen the utter fruitlessness of their UWS multicultural rainbow kumbaya "help" to the locals...they return to the US shattered and broken creatures, only to be mocked by me upon their return.


______________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

Funny. When is the next mocking of a tail-between-the-legs-do-gooder?


________________________________________
From: Jerome
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

You're such a cynical moron I'm having a tough time understanding the value of responding to you.  For everyone of these "broken people" are volunteers around the world doing valuable work.  Maybe or maybe not Chavez' policies will ruin his country's economy.  Or maybe the US will engage in economic and political sabotage making that a fait accompli, but let them go ahead and try in peace and if it fails, it can't be worse than wasting a trillion on Iraq.  If they fail, the pendulum will switch back.  If they're attacked, in any way, the damage will last decades.

Or we could send Pat Robertson to assassinate him.


________________________________________
From: ag30476
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 1:38 PM
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

I may be cynical moron but I am also an eloquent idiot.

The point of all my cynical eloquence is that for all the evil done by multi-nationals and imperial states, local states do much more evil and harm to their own people. The point is not just to be cynical of multi-nationals and the US government but also to be cynical of the anti-US, anti-free market rhetoric of autocrats. That rhetoric is less about revolution for the people than it is about insuring the power of the dictator.

In the long run, I think the free societies will win over the autocratic states...No, I’m too cynical for that. That’s just my idiotic hope.

But in the meantime, the support given, misguidedly, by leftists to these dictators has the real effect of helping them enforce and prolong their power and the damage they do to their own people.


Comments:

Author Thread:
ag30476
Recent email thread on Chavez
Posted: Friday, January 19, 2007 4:28 PM (EST)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joseph
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

Jerome wrote: "For everyone of these "broken people" are volunteers around the world doing valuable work."

Tell that to that Lorie Berenson chick who is spending a lovely 20 year stint in prison on the high altiplano of Peru freezing her tits off everynight....she was just living with a kind hearted sendero luminoso chap, trying to "help" the noble revolutionairies against their unjust government...boo hoo hoo i wish i was back in berkely dating a banker

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jerome
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

You're picking a very different example  You pointed to someone helping armed revolutionaries.  That is not the way to go.  Many others don't get involved that way and don't make the press.  You're simplifications are about as meaningful as a Bill O'Reilly diatribe.

Ok, so I'm extremely tired today - shoot me.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joseph
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

She has the same attitude shared by the millions who - against all reason -  adore "Uncle Joe" Stalin, Chairman Mao, Cool Cigar Fidel, "I smell Sulfur" Chavez, Buddy Che Guevara, that cool guy Evo Moralez, Jazz Singer Lula, Robert "My Mustache is much smaller than Hitler's" Mugabe, Thabo "Aids can be cured by Medicine Men" Mbeki, etc etc etc...

Okay, they may have totally screwed up their country, ruined their economies, imprisoned thousands, and starved millions...but their hearts were in the right place

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ag30476
Subject: RE: Still there is no shortage of fools

Joseph, Have you thought of writing for O'Reilly? Funny stuff.

Hobbes21
Recent email thread on Chavez
Posted: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 8:34 AM (EST)
Past history, Lenin, Mao, Fidel etc all came to power admired by member of the "useful fools' including ' very religious people. Who assumed that the change was for the better. In practiced countries who have become Socialist have become Feudal societies. Anyone who have study Marxism and read the Communist Manifest, is aware how Marx decry the dismiss of feudalism and how was outrage by the break up of the previous social order and the rise of the egalitarian , New man, one who regardless of social birth , be a peasant etc break the "stable social order ". Anyone who ever lived in Socialist societies such as former Soviet Union, China. Romania etc, is aware of an existence of Feudalism , a top caste , who have the reins of the economy, political and military power and live in splendor , with dachas, palaces , servants , jewels, while the rest of the population , regardless of their education , P.H. MD etc are part of the serfdom . Russia was a net food exporter, after Lenin , it became food " needy" only after reforms done 60'70' the food production started to pick up . China under Mao,due to his policies experienced famines which killed millions of Chinese. One of the great " Failing ' decision is how the Leaders , discarding Science, order to plant seed in terrain which P.H is not suitable for such crop. But the " Feudal Lord ' knows better for the good of the people" , results , land wasted , reduction of available soil to produce staples . Hunger for the majority of the people due to reduction of food production and supply of the Leader and his court table always is good supply. Like Peron the Neo Nazi , , Chavez is using the same populist tactic and lamentably using the historical precedent most likely that he will be as successful as Castro and materialized what Peron failed , to obtain lifetime absolute power. I pray for the poor souls , because History repeats itself, and despite the historical precedent and evidence. Nations disregards others nations experiences. So in the good people of Venezuela, fed up with the corruption of the system, ( truth is truth , politicians in Venezuela , helped to undermine democracy with their irresponsible behavior , be a lesson for any politicians in what it remains of the Free World) choose a Dualistic Response. However, I do not excuse such choice especially when some of the ones who did it are educated and world travelers , there is almost 100 of hard core factual evidence that such Way, Socialism did not rescue people from the injustices and corruption. I could understand such big mistake if there was not body of evidence or previous precedent but there are plenty of evidences. In societies all around the world . From Asia, Europe, Africa and Latin America but people sometimes prefer hara kiri, Lets be on guard to one day wake up and find out that America, Canada etc no longer are what we know but have become the land of the new man , the Serfs who cheer and bow their heads to the masters who whip their you know what ............at will

ag30476
Recent email thread on Chavez
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2007 12:33 AM (EST)

Update on Venezuela oil production this month:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/23/world/americas/23venez.html?pagewanted=print

ag30476
Recent email thread on Chavez
Posted: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:14 AM (EST)

And this follows last month's decision by Exxon and ConocoPhillips to walk away from multibillion dollar investements in Venezuela:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/business/worldbusiness/27oil.html?ei=5088&en=462f903ada061566&ex=1340596800&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1185516398-HtPGVPHSyZoI9KAjhqVIiQ






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